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buzzer
Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 112
| | Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:34 pm Post subject: King trumpet question | Recently acquired a King model 600 trumpet made about 1979 according to the serial number. It plays very well, has a nice full large sound, which makes me think it is a large bore horn. The current King instruments are all 462 bore, but not sure if that is the case with older horns. This particular horn has 458 stamped on the bottom of the middle valve below the serial number. Maybe the bore size? Any thoughts on this?
thanks |
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plp
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 6987
Location: South Alabama
| | Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:44 am Post subject: | | Surprise!! No, it is probably a medium bore, but bore size seems to have less to do with 'blow' than most seem to think. Is the bell a narrow wrap, i.e. looks noticably smaller than say, a Bach trumpet? I have found for me, the narrower the wrap, the tighter the blow, although that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I get a great laser sound out of my Ambassador, but it has probably the most resistance of any of my regular players. My Connie is a much smaller bore, but has a wide wrap on the bell and I physically cannot overblow it, although I can make it 'back up' when the airstream gets disturbed. |
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buzzer
Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 112
| | Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:12 am Post subject: King 600 | I don't have a Bach to compare it to but will do that later on - The sound is bigger and a bit darker than either my Mendez or my Ambassador (modified with a round tuning slide and 43 leadpipe) and has a great bottom register. Slots very well also. So possibly it is a ML bore. Thinking of putting the new GR leadpipe on it when I have it re-finished. Good horn no matter whatever it really turns out to be!
Al |
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Brian Moon
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 2785
Location: Detroit
| | Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:32 am Post subject: Re: King 600 | | buzzer wrote: | I don't have a Bach to compare it to but will do that later on - The sound is bigger and a bit darker than either my Mendez or my Ambassador (modified with a round tuning slide and 43 leadpipe) and has a great bottom register. Slots very well also. So possibly it is a ML bore. Thinking of putting the new GR leadpipe on it when I have it re-finished. Good horn no matter whatever it really turns out to be!
Al |
King 600 is was also called the Tempo. Remember the Ford Tempo? King 600 is that quality of horn. What I am saying is that you shouldn't waste money getting it refinished. Enjoy it but unless you've got plenty of cash to burn you shouldn't spend 200+ on it. New leadpipe on a student horn? Think twice. It sounds like you are getting pretty deep into a horn that you wouldn't be able to sell for more than $300 (I am being generous) when all is said and done. |
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plp
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 6987
Location: South Alabama
| | Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:05 pm Post subject: | While Brian is correct in that the Tempo or 600 was marketed as a student trumpet, base your decision on what works for you. If it plays great, and gives you a good sound, enjoy and make some quality music with it. Your Ambassador was a student trumpet also, but it has been said repeatedly by players far more knowledgeable than me that they are great pro quality horns with a leadpipe upgrade.
FWIW, I traded a 60's model Tempo for my first Strad, and traded away far and away the better of the two. Don't get hung up on what is stamped on the bell, what is important is what comes out of it. |
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Brian Moon
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 2785
Location: Detroit
| | Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:11 pm Post subject: | | plp wrote: | While Brian is correct in that the Tempo or 600 was marketed as a student trumpet, base your decision on what works for you. If it plays great, and gives you a good sound, enjoy and make some quality music with it. Your Ambassador was a student trumpet also, but it has been said repeatedly by players far more knowledgeable than me that they are great pro quality horns with a leadpipe upgrade.
FWIW, I traded a 60's model Tempo for my first Strad, and traded away far and away the better of the two. Don't get hung up on what is stamped on the bell, what is important is what comes out of it. |
If your Tempo was the better horn better there was something MAJOR wrong with your Bach.
If somebody likes what they got that is fine with me. I know someone that has done great things upgrading TR300s and even Getzen 300s. He would have made better horns out of Strads and Severinsens though. |
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plp
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 6987
Location: South Alabama
| | Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:37 pm Post subject: | There was definately something wrong with that Strad (Model 37) and with the Model 43 I traded up to. Both felt as though there was a rag stuffed in the bell. My private instructor at the time told me it was just going to take some time to get use to, after all, the Bach Strad is the pinnacle of trumpet craftsmanship, blah, blah, blah. Of course, he worked for the music store that sold them, and I am sure he got a commision. He also told me to quit playing my Conn 80-A, as cornets were dead and that was probably part of my problem. The only positive note was, I got enough on resale of the Model 43 6 years later to have tubes put in my daughter's ears.
I have played a few Strads in the past two years of my comeback, and one is an exceptional trumpet, the other 2 were well made but not for me, but none of them were anything like the two I spent hard earned cash for back in 1981.
Point is, there are bad, good, and great in all runs of production. |
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plankowner110
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 3365
| | Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:00 pm Post subject: | Your King is probably a .458' bore, especially since it is stamped 458. This was the standard King ML bore size for most of their trumpets until the 1055T Silver Flair was introduced in 1964 with a .462' bore. The King 600 of today has a .462' bore.
_________________
Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 631G flugelhorn
Yamaha 2330 II cornet (a little gem)
King Master Model cornet |
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buzzer
Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 112
| | Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:48 pm Post subject: King 600 | | Thanks to all that replied about the 600. I figured that it was most likely a ML bore and the 458 would be the size. Did not know the cutoff date for going to the 462. As far as refinishing goes, of course it is not necessary to do that. However, I much prefer a horn that looks good even though that will not make it sound better. Which is why I had some of my other horns refinished, and in the case of the 52 Ambassador, modified. But refinishing is not a top priority for sure. I really like the tone of this particular instrument, so perhaps it is out of a good run from the factory. I have a friend that has an excellent NY Bach and he will do some comparison tests for me. Will be interesting to see how that turns out. |
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Charles
Regular Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 92
Location: Houston, Texas
| | Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:50 pm Post subject: | The best trumpet I've ever owned was a King Cleveland 600 ca. 1977. Fantasctic horn. I wish I'd taken much better are of it. The last time I saw it it was under a basketball in my nephew's toy box with a mouthpiece stuck in it and it's leadpipe shaped like an arc. Picked it up and doodled around a little bit...it's STILL has a sweet, fat, singing tone and great response.
Charles |
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DaveH
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2001
Posts: 3850
| | Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:57 pm Post subject: | I think King made some very fine horns in the preUMI period. All the way back to the beginning of the H.N. White Company. I have a Silver Flair that is one of the older ones, and it is an excellent playing and sounding trumpet. Still looks and works great even though it is about 35 years old.
I think that other names have eclipsed the King name today. They have not, IMO, eclipsed the quality and performance of those King horns. |
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