Vis Radom P35 Serial Numbers

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06-21-2011, 05:24 PM #1
JV621

Posts: n/a
I am looking for a accurate source to determine correct marking methods (Engraved or Stamped) for The Kregsmarine Radom VIS 35

06-21-2011, 05:58 PM #2

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,698
To the best of my knowledge they were engraved with a pantograph machine. Look at the marking with a magnifying glass to see if it has the characteristic 'chatter' from the engraving bit, and rounded ends where it stops engraving. The bit is much like that used by a dentist.

09-11-2012, 10:00 AM #3

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6
I know it's been a while since the original post, but thought this pic might help others curious about what the Eagle M marking should look like. The serial number is in the 8xxx range and does not have a letter prefix. No lanyard loop. There is an 'N' engraved on the front of the grip but no other numbers. Holster is marked P35 w/ other stampings.

09-11-2012, 07:54 PM #4


Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,107
Originally Posted by BenTolson
I know it's been a while since the original post, but thought this pic might help others curious about what the Eagle M marking should look like. The serial number is in the 8xxx range and does not have a letter prefix. No lanyard loop. There is an 'N' engraved on the front of the grip but no other numbers. Holster is marked P35 w/ other stampings.
can you post closer picture of the stamp
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09-11-2012, 09:58 PM #5


Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 783
Now that'd be the pinnacle of my dreams... How many were KM contract, may I ask?
Nice pistol!
Lev

09-12-2012, 07:43 AM #6

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 503
That Radom is marked with the 'WaA77' This is a German Army test proof and unlikely kreigsmarine.
Is this a verified variation? I was not aware of any Radoms going to the Kreigsmarine?
Bob

09-12-2012, 08:10 AM #7

Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,878
This is a late-war production (c. 1944-1945) Radom pistol, correct? My recollection is that KM property markings ceased around 1941, so even if this pistol were procured by the KM, I would not expect it to have KM property markings applied at such a late date in the war.

09-12-2012, 05:42 PM #8

Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 490
I'm surprised by the lack of knowledge about this variant, it's well documented and has been known for a long time as legitimate. You should grab Jan Still's 'Axis Pistols' book, there is even a list of known Navy property numbers listed. According to the info, this pistol pictured falls into the known range of Kriegsmarine marked pistols and appears original to me.

09-12-2012, 08:06 PM #9

Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,878
Thanks, Mike. I'll pull Axis Pistols and take a look tonight after I get the kids to bed.

09-12-2012, 08:48 PM #10

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 503
Shame on me. I did go through Jan's book this morning before posting but was looking in the wrong section.
Jan states about 1000 were marked out of the first 14,000 occupation Radoms produced.
Hey... here to learn as well as to contribute
Bob

09-13-2012, 01:40 AM #11

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6
Here are some other pics of my Radom. I've tried to get a better close ups of the Eagle M...incandescent lighting isn't helping, I'll try tomorrow with natural sunlight & my wife's camera. All the numbers match...
Last edited by BenTolson; 09-13-2012 at 02:13 AM.

09-13-2012, 02:30 AM #12


Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 154
Beautiful shooter,
Love these pistols, I just picked one up over here in the land of OZ the other day ... Cheers for sharing
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Gustav Kloth,
Looking for his Ehrenpokal.

09-18-2012, 09:42 AM #13

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4
Hi, good radom! I had never seen radom with the mark of Marine! The Radom produced at the beginning of the German occupation also had the slide markings in the center, then the message is always moved back. Is very rare the serial number without letter . I have a radom with serial number very close to your pistol!

09-18-2012, 05:57 PM #14

Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,362
Originally Posted by Alan Smith
This is a late-war production (c. 1944-1945) Radom pistol, correct? My recollection is that KM property markings ceased around 1941, so even if this pistol were procured by the KM, I would not expect it to have KM property markings applied at such a late date in the war.
Sorry the Radom that is shown here is not a late war production. It looks more like a 1940 or 1941. I'm not 100% convinced that a real KM. The Radom banner is not sharp and crisp. I do not have such a sloppy Radom banner on any of my Radoms looks un even. Far to many were KM marked that in the late 70-80's. I remember a fellow at a gun show had 15 so called KM Radoms not one was original. About 90 % of all oroigianl KM went down wth the ship/subs
Look at the crisp banner posted, and a K block late war issued
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09-18-2012, 08:20 PM #15

Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,362
After looking at the Radom photos again IMHO. It's a fake. Somebody went to a lot of trouble to make a fake KM. The KM insignia is to big and to blurry anlong with the rest of the banner. Hope you did pay too much or you can recoup your money. I would love to get my hand on a real KM. This one would not be found in my collection
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  1. Radom P35 Serial Production Date
  2. Radom Vis 35 Disassembly
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Pistolet wz. 35 Vis
TypeSemi-automatic pistol
Place of originPoland
Service history
Used byPoland
Germany
Polish Underground
WarsInvasion of Poland, World War II
Production history
Designed1935
ManufacturerFB Radom
No. builtmore than 360,000
Specifications
Mass1.123 kg (loaded)
0.950 kg (unloaded)
Length205 mm
Barrel length120 mm
Cartridge9×19mm Parabellum
ActionRecoil-operated, closed bolt
Muzzle velocity345 m/s (1131.6 ft/s)
Feed system8-round box magazine
Vis

Vis (Polish designation pistolet wz. 35 Vis, German designation 9 mm Pistole 35(p), or simply the Radom in English sources) is a 9×19mmcaliber, single-action, semi-automatic pistol. Its design was inspired by American firearms inventor John Browning's 9mm 'Browning GP' pistol which was completed after Browning's death by designers at Fabrique Nationale in Herstal Belgium. Production of the Vis began at the Fabryka Broni arms factory in Radom in 1935, and was adopted as the standard handgun of the Polish Army the following year. The pistol was valued by the Germans and towards the end of the war issued to German paratroopers. Largely based on the Browning Hi-Power and using 9 mm rounds, the Vis is highly prized among collectors of firearms.[1]

Jan 31, 2018 - This is a picture of a F.B. RADOM VIS Mod.35.Pat.Nr.15567 per the slide marking the left side. It's design was “influenced” by John Browning's.

History[edit]

Vis Radom P35 Serial Numbers
VIS Pistol construction

The design was generally based on American firearms inventor John Browning's Browning Hi-Power, as adapted by Piotr Wilniewczyc and Jan Skrzypiński in 1930 at the Fabryka Broni (Arms Factory) in Radom under Director Kazimierz Ołdakowski. It operated on the short-recoil principle, with the barrel being cammed down and away from the locking lugs in the slide.

This later John Moses Browning design, unlike the M1911, was not cammed by a link, but by a ledge of sorts, which contacts a portion of the barrel and forces it down as it is moved rearward with the slide by the recoil force. It shares some similarities to the Spanish Ruby .45 ACP.[2] Like the 9mm Browning GP, a characteristic feature was a triangular grip shape, wider at the bottom, offering good ergonomics and firm grip.[1] On the right side grip cover, the Polish copy pistol had letters VIS in a triangle, on the left side—FB (for Fabryka Broni—'Arms Factory').The handgun was prepared in late 1930, and at the beginning of 1931 the first pistols were ready for testing. Initially it was named WiS (an acronym of the Polish designers' names), later the name was changed to Vis, meaning 'force' in Latin, with the wz. abbreviation for wzór ('model').[3]

The tests proved that the handgun was very accurate and stable (due to its size and mass, most stresses are absorbed and not passed on the shooter), while at the same time remaining reliable after firing more than 6,000 rounds.[1] The Vis was generally regarded as one of the best military pistols of that period.[by whom?]

Production started in the state armory Fabryka Broni in Radom in late 1935, and the following year it was introduced as the standard weapon of Polish infantry and cavalry officers. Successively, other units were to be equipped, and by 1932 all other handguns were scheduled to be withdrawn from service. By mid-1938, it was introduced to the armored and air forces. Before the invasion of Poland, approximately 49,400 (out of 90,000 ordered) were delivered to the army.[4]

In addition to the 9mm, there was also a small information series of .45 ACP version, with 7-round magazine, but they were not produced in greater series.[4] Most probably only for the Argentinian competition the wooden stock-shoulder was issued but it has not survived.[2] A .22 LR variant also existed, but no details are known, and its series was not produced in great numbers.[4]

After the Polish defeat in 1939, the Germans took over the Radom Armory and continued production of the Vis under the new name of 9 mm Pistole 645(p), which was for some reason often rendered as P 35(p) (the suffix 'p' means 'polnisch')[3] (the German pistols of the first series had inscriptions VIS Mod.35 and P.35(p) on the left side[4]). Up to 1945, between 312,000 and 380,000 were produced and used by the German paratroopers and police.

Fearing that Polish technicians working in the armory might supply the Home Army with the weapons, the Germans moved production of barrels and final assemble to Steyr-Daimler-Puch in the 'Ostmark' (Austria). However, underground production of Vis barrels was started in Warsaw and Kielce-based Huta Ludwików, and several hundred Vis pistols were assembled of parts smuggled from the factory, delivered to the Home Army and used extensively during the Warsaw Uprising, among others.

Vis pistols made after 1939 were issued in four different series, each with small modifications to simplify production. In late 1944, all production was moved to the Steyr works in Austria, where the last simplified model of the fourth series was produced (with no inscriptions at all, apart from bnz signature). The Vis remained in production until April 1945. Generally, the wartime Vis were of much lower quality than the original, and further degrading towards the end of the war.

Radom P35 Serial Production Date

After the war, production of the pistol was not continued, as the Army of the People's Republic of Poland used the SovietTT-33 pistol, produced in the former Fabryka Broni in Radom due to Warsaw Pact regulations. It was considered much inferior to the Vis, especially in ergonomics and reliability,[1] but political considerations and Soviet influence were decisive.

In August 1997, the Łucznik Arms Factory in Radom reintroduced the Vis pistol and produced a small series of some 27 pistols[1] on the basis of the original plans and specifications, mainly for the US collectors' market. But it differed from the original pre-war pistols with the shape of the rear sight notch and the Eagle on the slide.[2] In 2010 another short series was manufactured.[5] In 2012 IWA Radom Factory has presented the piece dated 2010 that was chromium coated instead of proper bluing.

In December 2017, FB Radom's chairman, Adam Suliga, confirmed to the Polish magazine MILMAG that the Vis would be returning to production, and is planned to be available for retail in the second half of 2018. This will not be a single commemorative series, but rather, according to MILMAG, FB Radom reportedly hope to continually offer the wz.35 for the export market.[6]

Overview[edit]

The Vis pistol is a single-action, hammer-fired, locked-breech design. The control on the slide is a decocking mechanism that releases the hammer while camming the firing pin up into the slide. There is a grip safety blocking the sear unless fully compressed, but the control in the same position as a thumb safety on a Browning Hi-Power or M1911-style pistol is not a safety.

The take-down lever is used to lock the slide back (as the Browning Hi-Power safety is used) during disassembly to allow removal of the slide release lever. In later variants, this lever is omitted and the slide must be manually aligned to remove the slide release lever. Once the slide and frame are aligned (by the disassembly lever or manually), the recoil guide is pulled forward to release the slide release lever and allow it to drop free. The slide will then be free to run forward and be removed from the frame.

Radom Vis 35 Disassembly

The magazine catch is to the rear of the trigger guard and not at the heel of the grip in the typical European fashion of the time. A pistol lanyard is installed in the heel position for pistol retention. There is no magazine safety.[3]

Users[edit]

  • Poland - Polish Army
  • Nazi Germany - factory captured in World War II, used primarily by the Fallschirmjäger
  • Polish Underground - specifically during the Warsaw Uprising

References[edit]

  1. ^ abcde(in Polish) Twardoch, Szczepan, VIS-a-VIS in Broń i Amunicja nr. 3/2007, p.48–51, ISSN1644-339X
  2. ^ abcYork, William J. (2011). VIS Radom, A study and photographic album of Poland's finest pistol. Printed and bound in the USA. pp. 22–24. ISBN0-9707997-8-0.
  3. ^ abcBishop, Chris (2006). The Encyclopedia of Small Arms and Artillery. Grange Books. pp. 13–14. ISBN978-1-84013-910-5.
  4. ^ abcd(in Polish) Weiler, Wojciech: VIS in: Przegląd Strzelecki Arsenał nr. 2/2004(4), p.51–60, ISSN1731-190X
  5. ^Remigiusz Wilk, Bez nowości, ale z Bumarem, „Raport-WTO” nr. 03/2011, p.46 (in Polish)
  6. ^Remigiusz Wilk, 'Vis na rynku od 2018', MILMAG website, available at [1] (in Polish)
  • Lapin, Terence W. (2004). Vis: The Model 35 Radom Pistol. Arlington: Hyrax Publishers. ISBN0-9676896-4-3.
  • Andrzej Ciepliński, Ryszard Woźniak (1996). 9 mm pistolet samopowtarzalny VIS wz. 1935. Warsaw: Bellona. ISBN83-11-08604-4.

External links[edit]

Wikimedia Commons has media related to Pistolet wz. 35 Vis.
  • Polish patent filed on January 15, 1931.[permanent dead link]
Retrieved from 'https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=FB_Vis&oldid=891219694'
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